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webs of a secularism

Whenever we start talking to some people of  “younger  generation” (which includes me as well, but I am one of the many exceptions) about politics and hindutva, they say they are not interested in “ politics” and “religion” , rather they say they are “apolitical” and “secular”. To really understand what they mean by “secular” and “apolitical” I browsed the oxford dictionary and found as follows :

Secularism : the belief that religion should not be involved in the organisation of society , education etc..

So secularism / secularist / secular is a word connected with an organisation or government of a state. It is not connected with a individual. So as my friend pointed out in his tweets “Secularism may be policy of an institute/organisation/state or a nation. How can individuals be secular?  If they are, its just bad grammar! “, the word is quite illogical when an individual utters it. Now okay, if an individual when he says “he is secular”  means that “he respects all the religions” is also is not a good logic. See how ?

Take the case of a hindu who claims he is secular , now  many questions do arise ,

  1. 1. Do you practice hinduism ?
  2. 2. Do you practice christianity ?
  3. 3. Do you practice islam ?

The “supposed” intelligent answer of this question may be  “yes, all religion says the same thing “. But there is a great trap, this is what hinduism also says as I quote vedas “ एकं सत् विप्राः बहुदा वदन्ति”, means ‘truth is one, sages describe it in different ways’ . So you are not “secular”, you are a hindu and your hindu mind gave you that answer. Now , tell me ,whether a christian and islamic mind can quote these  from their scriptures the very same word which came out automatically from your mouth, that “all religions says the same thing” which is already ther in your basic scriptures.

If u ask the same questions to practicing christians and muslims , they will boldly say  “well, we believe in one god , christ/allah, we do not believe in idols made of stones and all , also we do not approve of any other books and places as sacred other than those which are prescribed by our prophets, so I practice christianity/islam. “ . well , so “secular” hindu will not get any friends from other religions.  So now ?

“ Oh , I do not care about what they say , I am proud that I belong to a faith that respects every religion, in that way I am proud hindu “.  So you now came from the plane of “secular” to “proud” hindu.  He will explain further to prove his fragile existance I “secular” plane , “actually our upanishads and vedas also speak of one god, and idolatory is not prescribed  there , so in that way the christians/islam is not wrong in criticising hinduism” . come on , now why did you earlier say you practice hinduism as it is seen now. So you now need to explain you are a   “hindu or  “ a non hindu” ?

So come out from these  webs , you the tiger, have caged yourself in , you are not secular, you are quite above it ,you are a HINDU as veer savarkar says put it rightly  . “ As long as other communities in India or in the world are not respectively planning India first or mankind first, but all are busy in organizing offensive and defensive alliances and combinations on entirely narrow racial or religious or national basis, so long, at least, so long O Hindus, strengthen if you can those subtle bonds that like nerve threads bind you in one organic social being.”

 

Note : my views on the word “apolitical” in the next post “, coming soon….

 

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15 Comments on “webs of a secularism”

  1. HinduIDF says:

    If you are a Hindu and believe in Hinduism then it itself means that you are Secular…and all religions does not preach the same thing.Hindus need to think differently

  2. Prashanth K.P. says:

    Secularism! Well. That is a axiom alien to India. Yet that is what governs the constitution by a group of pseudo-secularists who perceive and practice totally biased and partial policies towards diverse cultural groups of the Majority community. Minorities extol at the humongous benefits these pseudo-secularists proffer them in exchange for vote bank politics. Yet, the majority community by far fail to realize their loss, their rights!

    A theologian who belonged to the episcopal Church once said, “the top 10% of the people who are most creative, constructive and thoughtful do not have much to do with their faith. To them the cannons of reason comes first, making faith secondary and often, questionable”. This juxtaposition is exactly where we Hindus are stationed at currently. It is the lapse of deliverance from this 10% population that leaves a cascading effect of religious negativity down the other layers of the society.

    Well, again I emphasize, hey, Hindus, please awake from your slumber. As if a thousand years of getting kicked in the butt is not enough for you!

    Thank you.

  3. Suraj says:

    Secularism is a (political?) world view in which there is no religion – not that the individual of that system aren’t religious, just that religious/race biases are (expected) to be kept away in differentiating people. An individual is secular in this very respect. That I see you and my friends who are christian, muslim, any other religion or non-religious with the same eye is why I would be secular.

    I would detest being classified as a hindu, forget _proud hindu_. Just because one man-made book (no evidence to the contrary) says that “there is one god, different messengers” doesn’t mean that it gets to have a title over what I am. Also, its logically flawed to make that statement – to be a hindu requires belief in various books, gods, some or other messengers, some commandments – a mix of these factors – none of which I share, if you have me as an example i.e..

    A christian could make a similar statement that we are all created in “god’s image”. so you are equally a christian, without an option to opt out. How would that come across?

    Religions – any of them – are, by definition, mutually exclusive and non-secular in that it finds the others to be wrong. But individual people can be, so can be nations when they don’t bind themselves to the sayings of early civilizations which used religion as a way to organize their lives.

  4. ashokmkini says:

    first of all thank you for the long comment you made,
    but i have four counter points to make to your four points in the above comment

    1.”Just because one man-made book (no evidence to the contrary) ”

    you have made these statement may be because of your vague understanding of hinduism. Every book of hindus has an author , vedas are edited by vyasa , spoken by various rishis , they are called seers of that manthra. Now you dont need to provide evidence to prove that it is not a man made book, because the scripture includes the name of the author,and we need not prove it is otherwise.. similarly mahabharata by vyasa, ramayana by vatmeeki and so on…

    2.”doesn’t mean that it gets to have a title over what I am.”

    ahh.. who is this great ” I ” , this you lives only for a few years , but these scriptures stood for milleniums, so they are something great than the little “you” and “me”.

    3.”you are equally a christian”

    i am not a christian , because i am no a follower of christ, i do not fear him nor do i worship him. but the case of hinduism is something differnt, because, it do not depend on one individual, not one scripture, and even if you prove to its greatest accuracy that all we worship and respect is false and myth, the hinduism wont be affected. but what about christianity, it depends on the historicity of divinity of christ ?? i am forced to say you too are a hindu, may be you are not religious, but that does not stop yourself from being a hindu, because athiesm is also part of hindu way of life.

    4.”Religions – any of them – are, by definition, mutually exclusive and non-secular in that it finds the others to be wrong. ”

    any christian or muslim practice is not allien to hinduism, say for example, if they follow christ, we follow krishna, if muslims do namas, we do namaskar, so in a way all religion are offshoots of hinduism.

    • neo says:

      As to point 1, I am not sure what you are trying to say. Indeed, its known that those books are written by human beings; when I say there is no evidence to the contrary – there is no evidence that there is any god communicating anything with any of these authors.

      Point 2: I don’t see why that means that it has any authority to command as to what I am or should be. There are nomadic texts – sign based wall paintings by precivilization tribes – do I conform to that as well just because they have stood for thousands of years?? What about Egyptian books? they are almost as old, maybe even older?. And given point 1, why should I even heed to any of these books?

      Point 3:
      a. I worship no one.
      b. I do not follow any hindu or any other religious books
      c. To use your own words – you don’t have to believe in christ, as the christians would say, you are made in his image. You can probably see the fallacy in this logic, just know that the same applies to hinduism and I, automatically, being an hindu.

      Point 4: Similar postures and symbolism can be see in cave paintings that are over 10k years old. what be your point? In fact most of christianity and judaism takes its practices from egyptian and other pagan religions in that region. In India we see christians having many similar patterns because that religion adapted local forms of worship to gain foothold. Islam is plagiarism of christianity.

      None the less, religions are mutually exclusive because each makes its on truth claims.

      • ashokmkini says:

        point no. 1 clarified : no hindu texts claim that they are words from gods, each text is writtern by respective authors, and the name of author is givenin each scriptures.

        ur point 2 and 4 : what to follow, that right is upto you, i am born as indian and i hence follow what i see in india , so donno about egyptian and greece.

        ur point 3 : for being a christian, u need to follow christ, go to church every sunday if u r catholic, if i worship any other gods, idols , books etc, then i cease to be christian, it is writtern in thier commandments, and hinduism as you know do not dictate its followers. (now the christianity is in crisis, and they are diluting the commandments, and ur “image” theory is one of these dilution,)

  5. Lalit Bhatia says:

    Pseudo-secularists in our country have ruined the culture and ethos as we hindus are too liberal and bear all the shit. We hindus have to wake-up before it’s too late. Any ways congrats for the good work, keep going to wake-up those who are still asleep.Jai Shree Ram.

  6. Ajith says:

    The most important point that your post has brought out is the fact that ‘secularism’ relates to the State, not the outlook of an individual. I presume i may stretch the point you made by adding that by being an ardent believer/follower of any religion and practising or propagating it and striving to work in the best interests of his community will not go against the tenets of secularism simply because it has no relation to an individual.

    next point that needs to be examined is the definition of secularism as it applies to the State, how it applies in the Indian context and whether it leads to the conclusion that secularism means religion-neutral(state has no special preference for any religion-practised by majority or minority;it tolerates and accepts all religions as well as irreligion) or anti-religion and how far either of these two meanings is acceptable. You should take forward your thesis on secularism by focussing on this aspect as well, otherwise it risks being incomplete..

    The approaches of the followers of denominations other than the Hindus who accept all religions, has been brought out by you and this leads us to the next question- how do we deal with those who refuse to tolerate or accept other religions& what is or should be the stand of the ‘secular’ state in dealing with them?

    I hope we are entitled to get an answer from you on these aspects and you will indeed answer our queries and dispel our doubts…

  7. ashokmkini says:

    ” how do we deal with those who refuse to tolerate or accept other religions& what is or should be the stand of the ‘secular’ state in dealing with them? ”

    hindu aka sanathana dharma accepts the islamic and christian way as one of the path to reach the truth , and you are asking about what should be the approach of the state to the people who thinks thier way is only the true way, well , and my answer is that the state should ensure thier right to believe so, and also must ensure that they are not forcing or disturbing others while practicing thier faith !!

    secularism itself is incomplete, because it is copied from the west, and indianised to an extent, the best suitable way for india is hindutva, where everyone will practice any faith (which doesnot disturb others) and do not try, to say my faith is superior to other. well , as of now i can give you this answr, hope u r clarified . thanks !!

  8. Ajith says:

    That’s exactly the answer I was expecting..Hindutva is the way forward..that should determine the State’s approach.. Since You have quoted Savarkar in your post, I would urge you to pay special attn to his approach towards muslims and christians(whom, to the best of my belief, are not considered as ‘hindus’ by Veer Savarkar)..I think his stand on minorities may show the way forward-but its somewhat different from the position taken by RSS…Both approaches make for interesting reading!

  9. ashokmkini says:

    yes, i am reading savarkar quite recently and i am sorry to say his views are not taken up by rss as it is..

  10. Sreekanth G Pai says:

    Why don’t we practice humanism instead of Hinduism,Christianity,Islam 🙂

    I think no body can ruin a culture as long as someone who’s following that culture is alive.. People are free to believe/follow any culture/anything they want.. We are always biased. What ever culture we follow, we never follow it 100%.. to some extend we may be.. but not always 100%
    I believe we follow a culture which is hybrid.. 🙂

    Let me tell u my case,
    Since i am born in a Brahmin family, i tend to follow Hinduism to some extend.. If i were born as a christian.. i wudve followed Christianity.. So does tat mean following a culture comes from heart/soul ? i think we follow some culture/religion which our parents follow(ancestral of course)….. at least in my case it is true.. and i never thought of any other religion/culture.. main reason wud be because..
    1) Nobody ever asked me which culture i follow..
    2) None of the application forms which i filled whether it is for exam or something else asked me which culture i follow..
    Everybody asks only about the religion/caste.

    I feel we don’t need any religion to exist in this world. As per Charles Darwin, We evolve from apes, Apes never had a religion(Correct me if i am wrong) still they exist. So should we really waste time in thinking whether we are secular,hindu,islam, christain ? instead we can believe that we are humans and do something good for humanity/living things around us so that we can have better future.

  11. Yogindunath Bharadwaj says:

    Its all arm chair philosophy. If you are a Hindu, practice Hinduism. A Hindu does not preach and he does not feel others are ignorant folks.He quitely practices Hindu code of conduct and his conduct is followed by others. My phylosophy is ” see god in all beings”.Its a sheer waste of time talking about any ism.

    Just practice Hindusim in your daily life,dont preach and unsette others. Serve the poor and lead people by example and service without bragging about proud hindu, bharathiya etc

    • ashokmkini says:

      i am never a religious hindu neither i claim so, but as a citizen of this country called indiam i do say i am a hindu and that is my clarification,

      arm chair philosophy :
      first of all i am not talking philosophy here, am talking about reality. and i wonder how do you practice philosophy ( i can understand you meant hndu practices) ? you also sit in some wooden stool and practice it, some go to temples and sit there, so shall i call you people are practicing ” wooden stool philosophy”. and how is it more better than arm chair, i am joking, but am serious too…

      He quitely practices Hindu code of conduct and his conduct is followed by others.:

      what are these code of conducts , there is no such code of conducts, ” vimrashyethad asheshens yathechasi thatha kuru” , everyone has right to criticise, and according to his analysis he practices, according to his life and circumstances and his way,

      Serve the poor and lead people by example and service without bragging about proud hindu, bharathiya

      yes sure, many services are done by hindu organisations like sathya sai,amrithanandamayi, vhp, rss etc, but india is a vast country and the service will take quite time to reach all, and those who come to help poor of india are also welcome o help, but we will certainly pay back if his motive is to change his religion, then there is some problem, and we will take care of those probs.

      PS : not even for fun, tease someone who are working for the cause of nation, once this nation disaapears, the hindu pracices will also not remain, no god will help us for the fate we weved for ourself.

  12. ashokmkini says:

    Why don’t we practice humanism instead of Hinduism,Christianity,Islam ??

    wikipedia says Humanism is an approach in study, philosophy, or practice that focuses on human values and concerns, i do not think neither u nor anyone will say hindu is devoid of all these, so the issue is very simple, u r a hindu, does not make u less human.

    People are free to believe/follow any culture/anything they want.??

    yes, does your culture that you got from your parents who in turn got it from thier ancestors say anything which is contarary to this, i do not think u r not saying u r not a hindu , so it is better to say that hinduism doesnot say any path as a wrong path, while other religions explicitly say so..and we do not say they are wrong also

    If i were born as a christian.. i wudve followed Christianity.. ??
    yes, but what to do, u r born as a hindu , and as krishna said “do swadharma”. thats all..

    So does tat mean following a culture comes from heart/soul ?
    i do not know whether it comes from heart or soul, but am sure it comes from the surroundings, u were born in india where this culture exist prominently and hence u got this, and even if u r born as a hindu, and u live in some other place where ther is no such culture, u would not get the culture of hndus. simple…!!

    “None of the application forms which i filled whether it is for exam or something else asked me which culture i follow..”

    culture is a geographical entity, indian culture is different from american, nor is better nor is worse, because u r born in india and because u r following indian culture, and to identify this culture which u share with million other indians someone put u the name hindu, u r following hindu culture, not xtian, not islam!! and that is why i suppose , u fill religion coloumn as hindu !!

    “I feel we don’t need any religion to exist in this world”
    i also feel so,, but what to do, the islam want to make whole world islamic, and so is xtianity, hindus like you and me, who are benevolent, tolerant, humane tolerate such nonsense, and say we are humans first, really feeling proud, but sad that such benevolent humanes are always reducing in numbers..

    “instead we can believe that we are humans and do something good for humanity/living things around us so that we can have better future”

    can u show a religious christian or islam who says he is not christian/islam , but only a humane ? but i can show u hindus,it is none other than you !!


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